Thursday, December 08, 2005

morality


some of the memories that i have of visiting my grandpa & grandma's
house were of the childhood spankings that were sometimes unavoidable
by my dad. grandpa was a gentle man, at least toward us as he was well
up in age by the time of my collective memories. grandma was as nice as
any grandma could ever be, and one or the other would always take up
for us and say "Now Charlie, you shouldn't hit those babies". sometimes
he would listen, but sometimes he would just say that we were
his kids, and if we needed a whipping, he would give
us one. and one we got. over, and over, and over again until we were
just too big anymore. many whippings were born of just plain anger, and
the receiving end of one was not a good place to be.

i will not go any further into how this affected us psychologically,
all of us in different ways, but it definitely had an effect on our
personalities. it's perhaps one of the biggest reasons that i chose not
to whip my children. so much for the violence begets violence theory,
which usually does hold true.

i also recall a particular incident in which i probably needed some
sort of behavior adjustment and didn't get it;...i was standing in
front of the television program of something that my uncle, my dad's youngest
brother, really wanted to watch( i wanted to watch something else) and
no matter how much he pleaded, i wouldn't get out of the way, so he
asked grandma to make me move. my dad, being the short tempered sort
that he always was, overheard and chased his own brother out of the
house with a hammer and down the street. it's a good thing he could run
faster. later, after things calmed down, we all had to load up in the
car and go looking for him, i felt so bad for him because of my
mischievousness, that i still haven't forgotten it. i loved my grandpa
and grandma, they were such a positive influence on our lowly lives.

moral of this story? don't hit your babies, it hurts more than you will ever know, and you will learn to regret it in the end.






27 comments:

Michael Reece said...

amen

Charles Cirilo said...

I guess I never knew why Daddy chased Uncle Dan with the hammer.

Byron @ said...

one of the less proud moments, kay says i never told her either

Les Cirilo said...

My dad used to give me whippings with his belt...but only when I did something really bad...and/or when I lied to him. The first one I can actually remember the reason for was this: My dad and Debbie were dating? I was still pretty little...guessing 6 or 7 in age? and My dad stayed the night with my mom Pat. He told me not to tell Debbie. I did, and boy was she mad! Didn't know why back then...haha, but do now. Dad was pretty mad at me too.

Second one that comes to mind is when I lit the drawer full of bills on fire in his desk at our house on Ebb St. I dropped a match into the drawer full of paperwork and it went up like wildfire...I ran to the bathroom and got a bucket full of water and doused it, but too late...the room was full of smoke. So being a boy of 7 or so, I closed the door and ran out to play. Dad was asleep on the couch, as was the custom for shift-workers. He smelled the smoke and found the problem...then found me. That was a well-deserved spanking.

I don't think I've been negatively affected by my spankings...not that I got them every day or anything. I do think the threat made me a better liar and a sneak! I just didn't get caught as much as I grew up.

Dad was always remorseful about giving them though. I never felt unloved because of it. I don't "whip" my kids either, but a smack on the bottom with the hand does come every now and again for not listening to the first few verbal warnings. It works.

Some people will argue the need for physical spankings versus verbal or time out, but I think it all boils down to what gets through to a particular kid. Some just get crushed if you look at them the wrong way...some don't listen at all, until they get a spanking.

I remember actually kindof fondly the time Gma gave me and Pete and Ben a switching because we drowned some cats around their house. I remember her telling us to go pick out our own switch too...and not to bring back one that would snap when she used it on us or she'd send us out for another one and start all over. Ahh...the memories...

Lotus Dale said...

boy do we all remember mamabird telling us this, more than a few times! lol. i decided against spankings/whippings also. and looks like my boys are following suit. i think i had enough for all of us thru several generations when i was a kid!

Byron @ said...

i was thinking more of those whose first reaction is a swift hand, for everything, & anything. sort of like a preemptive strike. it just shows their lack of parenting/teaching skills when their immediate response is inflicting pain, including when trying to teach a young exploring child what is off limits. i will clarify this later in another post.

Carroll Tarver said...

The effect it had on you was,in times past,known as adverse or reverse psychology.It proves to me that the mold can be broken.This is why I do not believe the courts should be linient to criminals because of their upbringing.This should be no defense for wanton murder nor child molestation.

Byron @ said...

i agree/ there is an interesting passage in the king james version about this. exodus

Carroll Tarver said...

Thank you Byron.I quit the Democrats when they were responsible for the coddling of criminals and did nothing for the victims.
I am back with the Democrats because I am sick of the Morons in Washington and especially the Crawford Texas Moron.
The killers in America showed no mecy for their victims therefore,in my opinion,there is no such thing as a cruel inhuman execution.
I have another version of the online Bible that displays various versions of the scriptures as they wer translated.If you would like to have it I will send it to you.

Charles Cirilo said...

I quit everyone and started all over again. I am a rainbow of agreement/disagreement. I am the only one right and everyone else has a right to be wrong. i dislike all politicians and root for the underdog and hope he/she wins every time. I am anti anything that cost me what I didn't go to walmart for. And I don't care how intelligent/unintelligent the president is because the morons are ultimately the people(including me until recently) who think it makes any difference which one we vote for. My heros are Archie Bunker and Earl Pitts and Martin Luther King Jr and Fred Sanford.....

Byron @ said...

in america, we agree to disagree. thats what makes us so egregious, oops! i meant agreeable.

bromer bags said...

teja hi, are you christian? just passing by,

Byron @ said...

yes, i hold christian beliefs.

Guy G. said...

In Chinese society it is said:” The more you beat, the sweeter the meat". If a child has no respect for daddy, he will have no respect for society or law. Judicious punishment, with calm head and a bare hand works wonders with headstrong children. Without both, spanking is always counterproductive.

Byron @ said...

Children are a product of their parents, and learn to mimic the parents. If a child is "headstrong", that child is only following what they see. I do not condone punishment, if it is only because a child is acting out what they perceive in you.

Guy G. said...

But the home is what later becomes society to a child. Children need to learn there are consequencs. Wasn't it jon Loke who suggested man gives up some freedoms to prserve more important ones? So what do you propose imposes these limits on a child? It appears that violence due to the lack of self restraint has increased by several orders of magnatude in the last 30 years.

Guy G. said...

But the home is what later becomes society to a child. Children need to learn there are consequencs. Wasn't it John Loke who suggested man gives up some freedoms to prserve more important ones? So what do you propose imposes these limits on a child without a concept consequences? It appears that violence due to the lack of self restraint has increased by several orders of magnatude in the last 30 years.

Lydia Carroll said...

guyinsanfancisco, holds chinese philosophy!


i decided to hide this post because of my obvious insensitive response toward my own sensitivity on this topic. i feel strongly convicted when i do things of this nature, although often times conviction comes all too slowly for what damage can be done by the tongue. (an instrument man cannot tame) my apologies to all who have seen it beforehand and especially to the guyinsanfransico.

Byron @ said...

This gentleman has stated that he has friends, family in China. It would seem that he is struggling to adapt to many issues in different cultures and there are problems in all. I want to believe that he is only trying to educate us in another custom, so I'll try to briefly follow some of these statements.

"Judicious punishment, with calm head and a bare hand works wonders with headstrong children. Without both, spanking is always counterproductive". And therein lies the problem with this philosophy, it is seldom done with either, but rather more as a spontaneous first strike.
To quote; ” The more you beat, the sweeter the meat". is anything but a calm head and a bare hand. This is an oxymoron to the first statement. It seems that this is trying to teach humility with painful blows. While this may produce submission, it can never be called respect.
"It appears that violence due to the lack of self restraint has increased by several orders of magnitude in the last 30 years". I would have to agree with that, it seems that the more we strike out at our children, the more they strike out at others.
"So what do you propose imposes these limits on a child without a concept consequences?" Love. I assure you, if love cannot teach respect, nothing can. And it has no borders or boundaries. Love is selfless. Love is the greatest gift, without this, there is no child, no parent, no great grandparent that is safe from hatred, in all it's forms.
I would implore you that if you truly subscribe to any of the ideas that you have pointed out are a part of Chinese philosophy, that you examine yourself, and your consciousness, ask yourself if you felt loved as a child, and have you passed that same feeling of security on to your children. If there is any doubt, then you do yourself and your children, and by default your grandchildren, a disservice. Sometimes it's never too late to change.

Lotus Dale said...

Well spoken. I concur. Love truly is the greatest gift, without which we are none safe from hatred, .... in all it's forms.

Simone Walker said...

You are so right. Love teaches children and adults everything and accomplishes much. I find it interesting that most Native Americans, Native Alaskans and Aleutians never hurt their children either physically or verbally and taught their children through respect and honor. It was often the case that white children who were taken into Native families were much happier than they had been with their families of origin because within the tribes they were treated with much respect.

Byron @ said...

Thanks Simone. We can strive for what we know is right, knowing that children are little people, only waiting their turn to repay what they learn from us. If we show them the respect they deserve, their hearts will be full of love for others.
I think Jesus said it best:
"And they brought young children to Him, that He should touch them: and His disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, He was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God"
(Mark 10:13-14).

Charles Cirilo said...

Ah, yes. It's the agenda driven who are so mean. I think children have no agenda. They are kind until agendas are introduced.

Byron @ said...

I wish I had an agenda. I think I had one once, but now, I can't seem to find it again.

Simone Walker said...

lol. I thought I had one or many but then I hit middle age and it's enough that I can find the cereal in the morning.

Charles Cirilo said...

yep.

Charles Cirilo said...

We are all kind once again...
I must have an agenda somewhere. . . I don't feel so kind...