A man spoke with the Lord about Heaven and Hell. "I will show you Hell," said the Lord. And they went into a room which had a large pot of stew in the middle. The smell was delicious and around the pot sat people who were famished and desperate. All were holding spoons with very long handles which reached to the pot, but because the handles of the spoons were longer than their arms, it was impossible to get the stew into their mouths. Their suffering was terrible.Link
"Now I will show you Heaven," said the Lord, and they went into an identical room. There was a similar pot of stew and the people had the same identical spoons, but they were well nourished, talking and happy.
At first the man did not understand.
"It is simple," said the Lord. "You see, they have learned to feed each other."
by: Author Unknown, Source Unknown
Tuesday, December 21, 2010
Heaven and Hell
Heaven and Hell
A man spoke with the Lord about Heaven and Hell. "I will show you Hell," said the Lord. And they went into a room which had a large pot of stew in the middle. The smell was delicious and around the pot sat people who were famished and desperate. All were holding spoons with very long handles which reached to the pot, but because the handles of the spoons were longer than their arms, it was impossible to get the stew into their mouths. Their suffering was terrible.Link
"Now I will show you Heaven," said the Lord, and they went into an identical room. There was a similar pot of stew and the people had the same identical spoons, but they were well nourished, talking and happy.
At first the man did not understand.
"It is simple," said the Lord. "You see, they have learned to feed each other."
by: Author Unknown, Source Unknown
Wednesday, December 08, 2010
Purgatory
Death is a delicate matter, even Jesus tried to broach the subject with propriety when speaking to his disciples concerning Lazarus of Bethany. In John's account, Jesus first tells them Lazarus is asleep: "Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep". Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. That not getting the point across Jesus had to abandon decorum and said unto them plainly, "Lazarus is dead". John 11:14
From Ecclesiastes: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.. Solomon had wisdom granted to him by God, because he asked unselfishly. He attained this wish through repeated sacrifice and prayer (a thousand offerings) 1Kings 3. None more than he would know the common beliefs of the day.
Psalms gives us this - Psa 89:48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Can this possibly mean that the soul will die? Job's skeptical question, "If a man die, shall he live again?" probes that thought. In the next verse he asks, "Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down to the earth?" That's kind of like the answer Charles gave here when he said "Whether or not anyone sees or knows anything here on earth after they die, whether or not they are conscious, asleep, or tip-toeing through the tulips is not of any consequence to the purpose of the Ecclesiastes". The scripture says our hope is in Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:51-58. Acts 24:14-15 tells us both just and unjust will arise. John 5:28 says this; Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
In first century Judaism, there was belief that there was some sort of waiting period or holding place for the soul immediately following death. We find this waiting period alluded to in the story of Lazarus, a beloved friend of Jesus. By the time Jesus returned to Judaea, Lazarus had been dead for four days, the point the rabbis claimed no trace of the soul remained in the body. Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already, John 11:17. Did Jesus know grief? Yes, "Jesus wept." John 11:35. As we can clearly gather from the following verses Jesus was teaching a different hope for the deceased. In verse 23-26, Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith to him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Maybe we should go back and read verse 4: When Jesus heard that [Lazarus was sick], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby. huh?... Not unto death?
So what about the beggar Lazarus, the rich man, and the Great Gulf? Parable or insight?
We have had previous discussions where we debated the use of the word hell, hades, and sheol, and their intended meanings. As previously stated, it was common belief that there was no life beyond the grave(Sheol, grave, Hades, and hell being synonymous), with only the righteous being raised from the dead in the resurrection. Jews who accepted the Oral Torah had come to believe that those in Sheol awaited the resurrection either in comfort (in the bosom of Abraham) or in torment.
And he cried out and said, "Father Abraham have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue; for I am in agony in this flame." Luke 16:24" And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed," Luke 16:26
First century Jews taught that only a "handbreadth" separated the wicked from the righteous in the afterlife. 13 Contrary to this belief, Jesus taught that a "great chasm" or "gulf" separated the Rich Man and Lazarus. Moreover, this gulf was "fixed" which means that it was permanent and immovable. The Gulf represents a permanent separation between the saved and the lost. Neither the righteous nor the unrighteous can bridge the gap to cross over to the other side. Death irreversibly seals a person's eternal destiny, which is just as we've been thinking all along, or have we?
So what can we say of Saul conjuring up the spirit of Samuel after his death?
1 Sam 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him,and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit,and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.1 Sam 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? Then this spirit proceeded to say that Saul would be joining him shortly - 1 Sam 28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me...Did Saul arise from the grave or a resting place, as it may? Probably not, as what he sought was an answer from a medium, or a familiar spirit. 1 Chr 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;
Inconclusive, as I have decided to stop here and get some feedback.
From Ecclesiastes: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.. Solomon had wisdom granted to him by God, because he asked unselfishly. He attained this wish through repeated sacrifice and prayer (a thousand offerings) 1Kings 3. None more than he would know the common beliefs of the day.
Psalms gives us this - Psa 89:48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Can this possibly mean that the soul will die? Job's skeptical question, "If a man die, shall he live again?" probes that thought. In the next verse he asks, "Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down to the earth?" That's kind of like the answer Charles gave here when he said "Whether or not anyone sees or knows anything here on earth after they die, whether or not they are conscious, asleep, or tip-toeing through the tulips is not of any consequence to the purpose of the Ecclesiastes". The scripture says our hope is in Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:51-58. Acts 24:14-15 tells us both just and unjust will arise. John 5:28 says this; Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
In first century Judaism, there was belief that there was some sort of waiting period or holding place for the soul immediately following death. We find this waiting period alluded to in the story of Lazarus, a beloved friend of Jesus. By the time Jesus returned to Judaea, Lazarus had been dead for four days, the point the rabbis claimed no trace of the soul remained in the body. Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already, John 11:17. Did Jesus know grief? Yes, "Jesus wept." John 11:35. As we can clearly gather from the following verses Jesus was teaching a different hope for the deceased. In verse 23-26, Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith to him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Maybe we should go back and read verse 4: When Jesus heard that [Lazarus was sick], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby. huh?... Not unto death?
So what about the beggar Lazarus, the rich man, and the Great Gulf? Parable or insight?
We have had previous discussions where we debated the use of the word hell, hades, and sheol, and their intended meanings. As previously stated, it was common belief that there was no life beyond the grave(Sheol, grave, Hades, and hell being synonymous), with only the righteous being raised from the dead in the resurrection. Jews who accepted the Oral Torah had come to believe that those in Sheol awaited the resurrection either in comfort (in the bosom of Abraham) or in torment.
And he cried out and said, "Father Abraham have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue; for I am in agony in this flame." Luke 16:24" And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed," Luke 16:26
First century Jews taught that only a "handbreadth" separated the wicked from the righteous in the afterlife. 13 Contrary to this belief, Jesus taught that a "great chasm" or "gulf" separated the Rich Man and Lazarus. Moreover, this gulf was "fixed" which means that it was permanent and immovable. The Gulf represents a permanent separation between the saved and the lost. Neither the righteous nor the unrighteous can bridge the gap to cross over to the other side. Death irreversibly seals a person's eternal destiny, which is just as we've been thinking all along, or have we?
So what can we say of Saul conjuring up the spirit of Samuel after his death?
1 Sam 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him,and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit,and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.1 Sam 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? Then this spirit proceeded to say that Saul would be joining him shortly - 1 Sam 28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me...Did Saul arise from the grave or a resting place, as it may? Probably not, as what he sought was an answer from a medium, or a familiar spirit. 1 Chr 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;
Inconclusive, as I have decided to stop here and get some feedback.
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